To remove or not to remove the dashcam in hot weather

LateralNW said:
If you're happy with your camera that's great.
If you're concerned about the heat then I believe it would be a sensible move to remove it from the dash when not in use on hot days.
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definitely the best advice. In any case, no one camera, with a battery or a capacitor, can not work on hot days, in the sun. Thanks.
 
Handling hot weather should be a basic design requirement for any decent dash-cam in my book. My old Lukas never let me down for more than 6 years in the super hot Arizona sun. I hope my new Blackvue will last as long as well.

Removing the dash-cam during hot days in my book is the same as saying that you can't use your remote to start your engine. Automotive electronics are supposed to handle all weather.
 
Dan2 said:
My old Lukas never let me down for more than 6 years in the super hot Arizona sun.
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A 1080 resolution dashcam.

Modern dashcams have 3 channels, 4K (1080 x 4) front + 2K (1080 * 2) rear + FHD (1080 * 1) cabin = 7x the image size, 7x the data, 7x the storage use, 7x more heat generated, but a smaller case to radiate the heat away!

Yes, they should be designed to do the job, but the lithium batteries that some use are not designed to handle the heat and are not able to do so for 6 years, more like 18 months.

Dan2 said:
I hope my new Blackvue will last as long as well.
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That doesn't have a battery, and I think it does have overheat shutdown, so should be OK in your Arizona sun, although it may not always record when it is really hot.
 
Dan2 said:
I think the ability to handle hot temperatures is one major differentiator of Korean vs Chinese made dash-cams, or at least was in the past. The Korean ones actually list the max temperature as part of their specs. Not sure about the other ones.
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Viofo has always listed the temperature parameters for their cameras and a few other manufacturers do as well. Still, there is a difference between "maximum" operating temperature during normal service and operating a camera in the cabin of an automobile on a hot sunny day, which is more or less like running it in an oven and under these circumstances a camera can far exceed its ratings.

A119 mini 2
A119mini2temps.jpg

Some cameras are better than others and in general heat tolerance has improved over the years but caution is always necessary. Although, lithium-polymer batteries vs super-capacitors have been the main focus of this thread there are other concerns.
In particular, certain lenses or lens/lens holder types have been prone to going badly and permanently out of focus under very hot conditions, especially within a closed vehicle sitting in direct sun. I've experienced this a number of times over the years. It was a significant and widespread problem with several Street Guardian models although they would have you believe otherwise at the time, claiming it was "rare". We saw the same thing occur with some older versions of the Viofo A119 min and mini 2 but Viofo addressed and eliminated the issue with an upgraded lens assembly.

Another issue with over-heated cameras in hot weather is simply wear and tear on the electronic components. A camera may function just fine in the heat but it will likely have a shortened lifespan in the long run if operated at maximum or greater temperatures for extended periods of time.

The camera that has been the most heat resistant for me has been the Mobius. I have two that have been operating as excellent stealthy side cameras in my truck for years now and they have endured a remarkable amount of abuse in both extreme sub-zero temperatures and extreme heat along with shocks and vibrations, Nothing phases them. My vehicle is dark blue and it can often feel like a solar oven!

I'm happy to see that Viofo has more recently begun incorporating beefy cast aluminum heat sinks into their cameras, both internally and in some cases partially exposed and vented externally, as in the A119 mini 2. (this is something I've advocated for, for a long time by moving to designs that are more like the way CCTV cameras are built to endure 24/7/365 service in extreme temperatures, often mounted on buildings sitting under direct sunshine for many hours.)
 
Dan2 said:
I think the ability to handle hot temperatures is one major differentiator of Korean vs Chinese made dash-cams, or at least was in the past. The Korean ones actually list the max temperature as part of their specs. Not sure about the other ones.
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All major manufacturers (70mai, Garmin, Viofo, ...) state the operating temperature, and it ranges from 60° to 65°C, regardless of whether they use a capacitor or a battery. Viofo for the A119 mini 2, for example, states the maximum non-operational temperature, but only 70°C, which is not enough in the summer, so the camera should be removed from the windshield. It is similar with other manufacturers.
 
Not trying to be argumentative, but if a dashcam is being sold for use in a car, it should be a given that it must operate wherever a car operates.

Anything else means poor engineering and customer deception.

It is not reasonable to expect the customer to remove the dash-cam from the windshield because of heat, or for the camera to shut down to "protect" itself.

Image a car alarm doing that.
 
Dan2 said:
Not trying to be argumentative, but if a dashcam is being sold for use in a car, it should be a given that it must operate wherever a car operates.

Anything else means poor engineering and customer deception.
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The issue on this thread is the use of lithium ion batteries in 70mai dashcams. Cars also use batteries, you can expect to replace the main car battery at around 6 years, sometimes less, and the car keyfob battery at every service, so I think it is reasonable to expect to replace the dashcam battery occasionally. Some dashcams, such as Viofo, have the advantage of not having a battery, so no need to replace it when it wears out, but for those that do use batteries, they are going to wear out.
Dan2 said:
It is not reasonable to expect the customer to remove the dash-cam from the windshield because of heat,...
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The customer doesn't need to, but if they do then they will extend the life of the battery, and it doesn't take much effort to extend it from around 18 months to 5 years.

Dan2 said:
or for the camera to shut down to "protect" itself.
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I think it is reasonable for it to shut down in parking mode if the air temperature in a locked car is getting up to 90°C.
I also think it should operate normally in any conditions that the driver is capable of driving in, even if they are an Australian who is happy to drive in outdoor temperatures of 50°C!
 
Nigel said:
Cars also use batteries, you can expect to replace the .................................. and the car keyfob battery at every service.
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Replace the key fob battery at every service? Really? In my experience automotive key fob batteries last for years without need for any attention. Replacing the lithium coin cell batteries in a key fob at every vehicle servicing seems wildly excessive to me.
 
Dan2 said:
Not trying to be argumentative, but if a dashcam is being sold for use in a car, it should be a given that it must operate wherever a car operates.

Anything else means poor engineering and customer deception.

It is not reasonable to expect the customer to remove the dash-cam from the windshield because of heat, or for the camera to shut down to "protect" itself.

Image a car alarm doing that.
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Personally I'm in the same camp. Protect the car, not the dashcam. Ideally you want a dashcam that's always there, set-it-and-forget-it, so you never have to putz with it, forget to reinstall it and plug in the cables, etc. What are you gonna think if you take down your dashcam one day, only to come back to your car and find that something happened and now you've got no evidence? Sure it can be a pretty extreme situation to deal with high heat, no doubt about it, so if that's an issue, ideally you'll want a dashcam with a supercapacitor that's optimized to handle higher temperatures and then handles its own thermal management and overheat shutoff protection as needed.
 
Vortex Radar said:
Personally I'm in the same camp. Protect the car, not the dashcam. Ideally you want a dashcam that's always there, set-it-and-forget-it, so you never have to putz with it, forget to reinstall it and plug in the cables, etc. What are you gonna think if you take down your dashcam one day, only to come back to your car and find that something happened and now you've got no evidence? Sure it can be a pretty extreme situation to deal with high heat, no doubt about it, so if that's an issue, ideally you'll want a dashcam with a supercapacitor that's optimized to handle higher temperatures and then handles its own thermal management and overheat shutoff protection as needed.
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Excellent. I agree. But I don't know of any commercially available cameras with a capacitor that can withstand higher temperatures (for example 75-80C). So far, I have not been able to find a single camera that would work at over 60-65C, regardless of whether it is with a capacitor or a battery.
 
grubisic said:
Excellent. I agree. But I don't know of any commercially available cameras with a capacitor that can withstand higher temperatures (for example 75-80C). So far, I have not been able to find a single camera that would work at over 60-65C, regardless of whether it is with a capacitor or a battery.
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According to Blackvue for their 970x Plus Box version:

Operation Temperature-20 °C − 70 °C (-4 °F − 158 °F)
Storage Temperature-20 °C − 80 °C (-4 °F − 176 °F )
High Temp Cut OffApprox. 80 °C (176 °F)

I think that's hot even for Arizona.

Their non-box version is rated 10 °C lower but still over 60-65C.

Operation Temperature-20 °C − 70 °C (-4 °F − 158 °F)
Storage Temperature-20 °C − 70 °C (-4 °F − 158 °F)
High Temp Cut OffApprox. 70 °C (167 °F)
 
How do DVRs maintain time & date when turned OFF?
Don't they all have a small battery inside? I am guessing they do.
And if so, are they effected by heat and should be replaced once a year or two?
Just curious.
 
Obtaining time from the GPS and or internal clock that uses the capacitors as a short time battery.
 
GPak said:
How do DVRs maintain time & date when turned OFF?
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GPak said:
And if so, are they effected by heat and should be replaced once a year or two?
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RTC Battery
I think @Nigel said they last around 5 years, by that time you most likely want to replace the camera due to advancements in image quality.

A229 Pro .png
 
Seems like Viofo is using a tinny battery. Too bad.

1713322977940.png
 
Dan2 said:
Seems like Viofo is using a tinny battery. Too bad.
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Too bad? ......Not sure why you have a problem with using a RTC batterry in dash cams. It has been a reliable solution that has been used in most dash cams for many years now. Real Time Clock batteries do fail eventually but they tend to last quite a while and they are rechargeable batteries, so they get a boost every time you drive your car and so they can store the date and time for long periods of time. By comparison, if you were to use a super-capacitor to back up your camera's time and date (it's been done) you would lose the date and time settings if you don't drive your car for several days or more.
 
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