VIOFO Improvement Wish List 2024

[Agie]

The Apple iPhone 15 Pro Max is a flagship phone.

It does 4K 60fps at 1768Mbps.

It is a bit power hungry when achieving that, and suffers from "Slow recording speed" errors if you don't meet Apple's storage requirements:


Of course it can't manage 4 simultaneous channels, only one.



We have to use flash storage, magnetic storage wont survive an accident.

Flash storage is not designed for recording multiple simultaneous channels. If you look at the speed test results then it is quite fast for sequential writes, but very poor for the random (and parallel) writes.

We can't buffer the video up for long enough to make it reasonably sequential, because if there is an accident involving an electrical power cut, then the video will be lost.

The answer is either to use one microSD card for each channel, or to store all channels in a single file, which is then incompatible with all video players, or to have some big internal buffers with maybe 10 minutes of video, that can make the writes to card reasonably sequential, but that requires an internal battery to cope with power loss...

Given that most people view/download their video files via the phone app these days, maybe storing the video in incompatible files while on the dashcam is acceptable?


eMMC guarantees that the dashcam will be replaced when the flash storage wears out, and that the dashcam warrantee expires when the storage wears out, just as it does when a battery wears out. So they must think it will last long enough that the purchaser will purchase an upgrade from the same supplier. Currently eMMC tends to only be found in 1080 resolution single channel dashcams?

As for UFS, I think that when it comes to simultaneous video files from multiple channels, there is no real performance advantage? It is still flash memory, only the interface is different.

UFS 3.x and up are fairly fast read and write speeds, close to NAND SSD speeds on PC. have a look. Much much faster than eMMC.

 

[kamkar]

I think solid state storage like M2 drives are plenty fast and can handle plenty of high quality streams too.
A spinning HDD of course is a no go, i am however amazed they will not die, and have now grown to HUGE sizes ( I vivid remember when i got first large spinning HDD for PC which was 1.2 Tb as i recall and pretty expensive too, though not as expensive as the 610 MB HDD i got for my Amiga 500 a few years before that )
As i recall the Amiga hard drives was SCSI ones, which have never been cheap, add to that the controller as these was external drives, in my case plugged into the side of the Amiga matching its profile.

Something like USB thumb driver, that can also be fast but i dont think they can handle several streams of data, so probably not a viable solution.

A M2 drive i am sure could be made pluggable, probably even without it being in a tray / caddy of some sort, granted we then need some form of external reader to put the HDD in to read on our PC, i can not recall seeing something like that for M2 but i do have a external HDD dock for regular SATA hard drives i dont use anymore.
But there are quite a few portable hard drives that use a M2 drive for storage, so the hardware is there to do M2 to USB

 

[Panzer Platform]

@Nigel
It looks like the memory problem has already been solved by the next generation of sd cards called “SD Express”.
600 Mbps read / write 8 channels simultaneously.
They even mention it's suitable for dash cams.

The State of microSD and Trends to Watch in 2024 | SD Association

www.sdcard.org

And KIOXIA just released the first 2TB micro sd card;

KIOXIA releases the world's first 2TB MicroSD card - OC3D

KIOXIA have pushed the limits of MicroSD storage with their new Exceria Plus G2 MicroSDXC 2TB cards. 2TB in a fingernail form factor!

overclock3d.net

 

[rcg530]

600 Mbps read / write 8 channels simultaneously.

The vendor's video shows 600 Mbytes/Sec. A "B" (for bytes) should be used instead of a "b" (for bits).

600 MBytes/Sec = 600 MBps or 4800 Mbps (600 MB * 8 bits/byte).

 

[Agie]

I think solid state storage like M2 drives are plenty fast and can handle plenty of high quality streams too.
A spinning HDD of course is a no go, i am however amazed they will not die, and have now grown to HUGE sizes ( I vivid remember when i got first large spinning HDD for PC which was 1.2 Tb as i recall and pretty expensive too, though not as expensive as the 610 MB HDD i got for my Amiga 500 a few years before that )
As i recall the Amiga hard drives was SCSI ones, which have never been cheap, add to that the controller as these was external drives, in my case plugged into the side of the Amiga matching its profile.

Something like USB thumb driver, that can also be fast but i dont think they can handle several streams of data, so probably not a viable solution.

A M2 drive i am sure could be made pluggable, probably even without it being in a tray / caddy of some sort, granted we then need some form of external reader to put the HDD in to read on our PC, i can not recall seeing something like that for M2 but i do have a external HDD dock for regular SATA hard drives i dont use anymore.
But there are quite a few portable hard drives that use a M2 drive for storage, so the hardware is there to do M2 to USB

Absolutely no need when UFS serves same purpose and plenty fast and uses less power than NVMe ssd

 

[Agie]

@Nigel
It looks like the memory problem has already been solved by the next generation of sd cards called “SD Express”.
600 Mbps read / write 8 channels simultaneously.
They even mention it's suitable for dash cams.

The State of microSD and Trends to Watch in 2024 | SD Association

www.sdcard.org

View attachment 71794


And KIOXIA just released the first 2TB micro sd card;

KIOXIA releases the world's first 2TB MicroSD card - OC3D

KIOXIA have pushed the limits of MicroSD storage with their new Exceria Plus G2 MicroSDXC 2TB cards. 2TB in a fingernail form factor!

overclock3d.net

View attachment 71795
View attachment 71796

I already discussed this month's ago, unless something miraculous happens it's gonna be dead in the water: https://petapixel.com/2023/10/19/sd-express-got-an-update-but-it-still-wont-make-the-format-work/

 

[Panzer Platform]

The vendor's video shows 600 Mbytes/Sec.

As soon as I watched that video I knew you were going to catch that typo. lol

 

[Panzer Platform]

I already discussed this month's ago, unless something miraculous happens it's gonna be dead in the water: https://petapixel.com/2023/10/19/sd-express-got-an-update-but-it-still-wont-make-the-format-work/

I’m starting to think the SD Association is a failed organization.

 

[Agie]

I’m starting to think the SD Association is a failed organization.

Seems like they have for the last few years, shame because the technology is there but no one wants to touch them lol. Would be nice to have options but like microSD slots dying off in smartphones, the same may happen soon enough in other devices

I'd prefer the option though to have a card if I wanted to...

 

[Panzer Platform]

Wide & Super Wide FOV Models
@viofo @VIOFO-Support

The original A119 Mini (2022) has the narrowest FOV I’ve ever measured at 93°, (my all-time favorite lens).
The A119 Mini 2 (2023) with “upgraded” lens has widest FOV I’ve ever measured at 114°.
https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/viofo-horizontal-fov-database.50161/




Viofo offers 3 different models of the F1 Action Cam.

CAMERAS

Professional video and photo quality, plus powerful features to capture and share your world.

www.gitup.com

90° FOV
130° FOV
160° FOV



Here is my request.
For the next “budget” 1-channel dash cam, offer two different FOV versions.
1.) Wide FOV 90°
2.) Super Wide FOV 160°
This will give consumers a choice.

Here’s the difference between the Original A119 Mini (93°), and the A139 Pro (111°).
Try to read the phone number on the cement truck.

 

[ogzogz]

Wide & Super Wide FOV Models
@viofo @VIOFO-Support

The original A119 Mini (2022) has the narrowest FOV I’ve ever measured at 93°, (my all-time favorite lens).
The A119 Mini 2 (2023) with “upgraded” lens has widest FOV I’ve ever measured at 114°.
https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/viofo-horizontal-fov-database.50161/

View attachment 71815
View attachment 71816

Viofo offers 3 different models of the F1 Action Cam.

CAMERAS

Professional video and photo quality, plus powerful features to capture and share your world.

www.gitup.com

90° FOV
130° FOV
160° FOV

View attachment 71818

Here is my request.
For the next “budget” 1-channel dash cam, offer two different FOV versions.
1.) Wide FOV 90°
2.) Super Wide FOV 160°
This will give consumers a choice.

Here’s the difference between the Original A119 Mini (93°), and the A139 Pro (111°).
Try to read the phone number on the cement truck.

View attachment 71822
View attachment 71823

I told you before that this could be done with software.
To make maximum or minimum use of the viewing area by adding wide and ultra wide options to the options, just like in GoPro.
Of course, the lack of optical zoom may not provide full clarity, but it is worth trying.
The narrow-angle original a119 mini 2 gives the best performance among 2k resolutions during night highway driving. @viofo @VIOFO-Support

 

[Nigel]

@Nigel
It looks like the memory problem has already been solved by the next generation of sd cards called “SD Express”.
600 Mbps read / write 8 channels simultaneously.
They even mention it's suitable for dash cams.

Yes, when we actually get cards that provide:

One standout feature of SD Express Speed Class is its ability to support multi-stream recording of up to eight streams simultaneously. This makes it ideal for capturing high-resolution video on devices like security and vehicle cameras using multiple cameras simultaneously.

Then we will be able to have our 8 channel dashcams.

It does look like Samsung intend to release some cards this year, and the SD Association has built the multi stream recording into the requirements, so it can't be left out, but we probably need more than just Samsung before this new specification will take off.

Looking into the future, who is going to be using SD cards of any type? People tend to store things in the clouds these days. If they are only used for cameras, and most people now use a phone camera which doesn't have any form of card slot, will this new specification actually take off? Also, I do have a dashcam without a card slot, so it may be that a lot of dashcam users will stop using memory cards too, and switch to using cloud storage! Not everyone wants an 8 channel dashcam, it may be a small market for these new cards.

I’m starting to think the SD Association is a failed organization.

UFS 3.x and up are fairly fast read and write speeds, close to NAND SSD speeds on PC. have a look. Much much faster than eMMC.

UFS hasn't been providing anything that you can use, so far it has been a failure.

The SD Association has been successful, we all use microSD cards, they have done a great job for their members, even if they haven't done such a great job for many of their customers!

Clearly they have recognised the problems dashcam users have been having, and these new speed classes are clearly designed to solve them. It looks like they have recognised that dashcams are going to be a significant part of their business going forward, as people stop using SD cards for other uses. It doesn't mean that all the SD card manufacturers will produce these new cards though, or that the dashcam manufacturers will completely change their memory card interfaces to support them, we will have to wait a few years and see...

 

[Nigel]

Here is my request.
For the next “budget” 1-channel dash cam, offer two different FOV versions.
1.) Wide FOV 90°
2.) Super Wide FOV 160°
This will give consumers a choice.

It would be a choice, but for a 1-channel dashcam, 90° horizontal FoV is too narrow and 160° is far too wide! The 93° of the Mini is already rather narrow, you can completely miss bumps in car parks through only looking straight forward, and the 114° of the Mini 2 makes plates hard to read in poor conditions, and that is a long way from 160°.

What you need for a front only dashcam is a dual lens, wide angle + telephoto, just like blind spot mirrors have twin, or variable FoVs.

 

[DAP]

I am not a fan of multi-channel systems. It creates a single point of failure, and requires a compromise on the data rate.
Things I would like to see in future dash cams:
A memory card test mode that will detect that the camera can write the memory card and read back what it wrote, tests that the memory card is as big as it says it is, and tests that the card can be written while erasing old files fast enough to reliably record.
Useful error messages: If the camera fails to record for some reason, it should sound an alarm, and display text that describes what went wrong. "Failed to write card" is NOT sufficient, Why did it fail? Write timed out? can't talk to card? etc.
Input voltage monitoring: If you are powering the camera through a long cable, the resistance of the cable can cause the voltage to drop enough to cause the camera to randomly reset. Most people don't have the tools to test for this. If the camera can display its input voltage, one could easily see if the input voltage is less than ideal.
A watch dog timer: This is a device that resets the system if the system has not notified the watch dog timer that it is operating properly within a certain time window. The software needs to poke the watch dog timer at regular intervals to keep the watch dog timer from resetting the system. If the watch dog timer times out and resets the system, an audible alarm should be triggered.
Optimize for license plate capture, NOT pretty pictures. This means prioritizing short shutter speeds rather than pleasing exposures. I'd much rather have a noisy dark picture where I can read plates than a beautiful image with the plates smeared to oblivion by a too long exposure. This applies also to the compression algorithm. Far away plates are fine detail, if your compression algorithm deletes that fine detail, it defeats the purpose of a dash cam. Also, if the user set the camera to 60 FPS, the camera should NEVER drop to 30 FPS or slower in low light conditions.

 

[Panzer Platform]

I am not a fan of multi-channel systems. It creates a single point of failure, and requires a compromise on the data rate.

I don’t like multi-channel systems either.
I have always found them to have more malfunctions than a single channel camera.
And the image quality from the remote cameras never look as good as the main camera.
However, it would be near impossible to convince the average consumer to install 3, or 4 single channel dash cams when they see “all-in-one” units on Amazon for $90. lol

Input voltage monitoring: If you are powering the camera through a long cable, the resistance of the cable can cause the voltage to drop enough to cause the camera to randomly reset. Most people don't have the tools to test for this. If the camera can display its input voltage, one could easily see if the input voltage is less than ideal.

I would love to see a little 5.1V voltmeter indicator on the LCD screen, or even in the text overlay on the recorded footage.
This would make diagnosing power starvation malfunctions much easier.

Optimize for license plate capture, NOT pretty pictures. This means prioritizing short shutter speeds rather than pleasing exposures. I'd much rather have a noisy dark picture where I can read plates than a beautiful image with the plates smeared to oblivion by a too long exposure. This applies also to the compression algorithm. Far away plates are fine detail, if your compression algorithm deletes that fine detail, it defeats the purpose of a dash cam.

This is my complaint with the latest firmware of the A229 Pro.
The night time HDR performance is lacking compared to the A139 Pro & A119 Mini 2, (about 90%-95%).
I think it’s because they want an overall “brighter” image for the consumer, but it’s coming at a cost of poor night time HDR performance.

This sounds like a lot of good stuff.
Just in case Viofo does not see your post you may want to send it to them directly;

Submit a ticket

support.viofo.com

 

[Nigel]

However, it would be near impossible to convince the average consumer to install 3, or 4 single channel dash cams when they see “all-in-one” units on Amazon for $90. lol

If you could buy 2x Viofo VS1 for the same price as 1x A229 Plus, which would you choose?

Currently the 2x VS1 is more expensive on Viofo.com, but a while ago the prices were actually the same.

Both options give you 2K resolution front and rear, both give HDR front and rear, the VS1 has the best bitrate at the rear, the A229 Plus has the best bitrate at the front. The VS1 has no CPL, but will have for front + rear, the A229 Plus has optional CPL, but only at the front.

Other than those differences, why choose one option over the other?

As for your 3 or 4 channels, the VS1 doesn't do IR, but should do side views OK, without any loss of bitrate for adding channels. (I don't remember seeing any side view video?). Maybe there should be a cheaper FHD version for the sides?

 

[Panzer Platform]

If you could buy 2x Viofo VS1 for the same price as 1x A229 Plus, which would you choose?

2x A119 Mini 2

I don't remember seeing any side view video?

Daytime

Night Time

You can see the placement of the Side Cameras with the Backseat IR Camera

Maybe there should be a cheaper FHD version for the sides?

No more 1080p cameras period.
That was #6 on the list.

 

[Nigel]

2x A119 Mini 2

I'll increase the VS1 bitrate to match the Mini 2...

Daytime

Those are A229 Pro, probably with the wrong FoV, I was wondering if the VS1 lens is wide enough.

No more 1080p cameras period.

Your original reason for people not wanting a multi-dashcam system was cost?:

However, it would be near impossible to convince the average consumer to install 3, or 4 single channel dash cams when they see “all-in-one” units on Amazon for $90. lol

Most rear, cabin and side cameras are still FHD resolution,
Thinkware uses 480 resolution per channel!

MB-100 Multiplier Box - Thinkware Dash Cam UK

Converts the T700, F790, F200 Pro and X700 into a 5 channel system.

thinkwaredashcam.eu

 

[Panzer Platform]

Your original reason for people not wanting a multi-dashcam system was cost?:

Not cost, simplicity.
Wiring up 4 different cameras is daunting for the first time buyer.
That's why they buy garbage like this;
https://www.amazon.com/gp/B0C7L8SMJM

Most rear, cabin and side cameras are still FHD resolution,

Death to all 1080p Dash Cams, Minimum 2K.