New 4K Starvis 2 dash camera

[safedrivesolutions]

Sorry for the off topic post. I do still like the design and form factor of the Vueroid D21 even with the metal ring. In many ways I think you could say that even with the metal ring the camera is in line with the trend in the industry I was talking about in regard to more discreet cams, especially considering the traditional predilection for showy dash cams sold in Korea.

View attachment 71460

Classic. glad they are black or dark greay in color

 

[Agie]

I’m with you 100%.
I agree with everything you said.
I feel honored you’ve pulled me into the hallway trying to talk some sense into me.
I have two extenuating circumstances currently preventing me from buy a Windows PC, or MAC computer.
1.) Fixed low income
2.) Stubborn stupidity
My budget for computing power is $199 when Chromebooks go on sale at Costco.
I only buy Chromebooks from Costco because they have a 90-day return policy.
I’ve bought Chromebooks from Walmart, but they only have a 30-day return policy.
Amazon, Best Buy have restrictive return policies on Chromebooks, and restocking fees.

I used Windows PC's in my professional career, but they were always provided at the expense of my employer.
I just refuse to personally own one, after several Windows PC’s I did own crapped out after 1 year.
I started exclusively using Chromebooks in 2012, it was $200 and lasted 7 years before it crapped out.
It’s not so much I want to “stay” with a Chromebook they just have the best value per dollar ratio for 95% of my needs.
I know this kneecaps my ability to test & review dash cams with H.265, and any video format other than MP4.
But I’m kind of OK with that, because it’s turned me into an unofficial, unappointed steward for my generation, and older that are anti-tech, or low-tech.
I’m not a Boomer btw, (Gen X).

When I insert the SD Card from the Vanture S1 Pro (H.265) I can see the files, but when I try to play them it only plays the audio with a tiny blank screen like this, (just watch the first 20 seconds);

There are some Chromebooks that can play H.265, but they cost $500 or more.
And that defeats the whole purpose of a Chromebook.
They are supposed to be cheap sub $200 units for email, websurfing, watching YouTube, etc.
OK, how about this.
I’ll make you a deal.
If I ever monetize my YouTube Channel, and become an Amazon Associate, and start putting affiliate links on all my videos that will generate around $500 per month before taxes.
With that income I could justify buying a Windows PC, or MAC computer to test & review H.265 & AVI format dash cams.

Pretty much all Macs and PCs are crap at the $199 price mark its been like that for years. I've had multiple complaints from friends over the years as to why their PC runs like **** and well I say you didn't fork out the extra money for something that's passable. Don't have to spend thousands of dollars to get a decent PC , far from it

 

[Vortex Radar]

Yeah your cheap cheap computers are really geared towards only the most basic things like email and web browsing. Video is inherently more demanding, particularly if you wanna do more than just watch YouTube videos. At the end of the day, it comes down to picking an appropriate tool for the job. Grand Pappy’s quote about buying cheap applies here.

Out of curiosity @Panzer Platform, what's your reason for choosing not to monetize your channel? I've got my lines too as far as things I don't do (ie. sponsored reviews) in order to maintain my integrity, but I don't feel like anything gets compromised if I enable YouTube ads or add affiliate links. If people are going to buy something based off of the time and energy we put into making content, it feels like a fair trade, particularly when those funds could be used for not only things like paying the bills, but also things like buying better cameras, laptops, microphones, or even more dashcams and accessories.

Everyone has their own approach to this of course, but if it's important for you to be anti-tech or low-tech out of principle, then okay.

Edit: I apologize for going off-topic here. Perhaps this discussion is best kept in another thread given this one is geared towards the D21.

 

[Panzer Platform]

Yeah your cheap cheap computers are really geared towards only the most basic things like email and web browsing. Video is inherently more demanding, particularly if you wanna do more than just watch YouTube videos. At the end of the day, it comes down to picking an appropriate tool for the job. Grand Pappy’s quote about buying cheap applies here.

Out of curiosity @Panzer Platform, what's your reason for choosing not to monetize your channel? I've got my lines too as far as things I don't do (ie. sponsored reviews) in order to maintain my integrity, but I don't feel like anything gets compromised if I enable YouTube ads or add affiliate links. If people are going to buy something based off of the time and energy we put into making content, it feels like a fair trade, particularly when those funds could be used for not only things like paying the bills, but also things like buying better cameras, laptops, microphones, or even more dashcams and accessories.

Everyone has their own approach to this of course, but if it's important for you to be anti-tech or low-tech out of principle, then okay.

Edit: I apologize for going off-topic here. Perhaps this discussion is best kept in another thread given this one is geared towards the D21.

I apologize to OP @safedrivesolutions and everyone else for my long rants, but it’s still on topic.
The core issue is compatibility issues of H.265 vs H.264 codec & AVI vs MP4 format, and if a dash cam requires proprietary software to be downloaded to review recorded footage.
These compatibility issues effect not only “low-tech consumers” but also Police Departments, Criminal / Civil Courts, Insurance Companies to be used as evidence.
Some of these government agencies, and companies will be unable to review the dash cam evidence because of computer compatibility issues.
Handing over dash cam evidence should be uncomplicated as handing over Photographs, VHS tape, or DVD.
If you tell a government agency;
“Oh by the way, you need to go to this third party website, and download their proprietary software to your department issued computer to view the dash cam footage on this SD Card” that may not end well.
The lowest paid court clerks, police cadets, employees, might be tasked with handling the SD Card, and preparing it for lawyers, prosecutors, investigators, and if they can’t figure out how to view the footage, that’s not good.
I agree 100% with you about your thoughts on YouTube monetization.
I’ll reply in PM because that is off topic.

 

[Dashmellow]

These compatibility issues effect not only “low-tech consumers” but also Police Departments, Criminal / Civil Courts, Insurance Companies to be used as evidence.
Some of these government agencies, and companies will be unable to review the dash cam evidence because of computer compatibility issues.
Handing over dash cam evidence should be uncomplicated as handing over Photographs, VHS tape, or DVD.

I have been saying the same thing for years here on the forum. It is vital to hand off dash cam files that are as idiot proof as possible to anyone who may need to see them. All it needs is for one person within the formal chain of evidence custody to not be able to open a file and your case may end up in the proverbial trash bin as the otherwise very busy official, attorney, LEO or insurance company employee moves on to the next case.

As I have also been saying for years now, the most simple, direct and best solution is to not use H.265 at all. PERIOD!

And forget about AVI - most everyone stopped using it years ago, including manufacturers of all but pretty much the cheapest obsolete, generic Chinese cameras. If you see such a camera, don't buy it!

 

[safedrivesolutions]

I have been saying the same thing for years here on the forum. It is vital to hand off dash cam files that are as idiot proof as possible to anyone who may need to see them. All it needs is for one person within the formal chain of evidence custody to not be able to open a file and your case may end up in the proverbial trash bin as the otherwise very busy official, attorney, LEO or insurance company employee moves on to the next case.

As I have also been saying for years now, the most simple, direct and best solution is to not use H.265 at all. PERIOD!

And forget about AVI - most everyone stopped using it years ago, including manufacturers of all but pretty much the cheapest obsolete, generic Chinese cameras. If you see such a camera, don't buy it!

I love your guys opinions on video formats. @Panzer Platform and @Dashmellow I have sold tons of H.265 video codec dash cameras. All the cameras we sell when downloading with smartphone app they download into MP4 format. Also AVI will work in windows media player. I do not use windows computers at all because i despise them. But that is who I am.

We have also sold GNET and IROAD dash cameras that use a JDR file format where you need to use a desktop computer or your smartphone to get an MP4 file.

The fact that anyone would give your video evidence on an SD card blindly to the police or RCMP, or any law enforcement is opposite of what I tell any customer. You are responsible for your own camera footage.

You are basically bring up the USB - C and lightning cable arguement that went on for years. Now Apple folded to a USB-C on their phones.

Also to correct people there are many dash cameras that spit out H.265 in MP4 format so to say that H.265 is bad is also wrong information.

Last point on the subject. Every dash camera that has a smartphone app uses proprietary software to view it via the smartphone app. Without their app you can not pair, view, change settings, and download.

I would say a very big chunk of customers do not even own Desktop computers anymore. I know that because we talk to our customers. Even people cruise Google with Tablets and Mobile phones more than a desktop computer. its in the 70% range of people using mobile.

I will agree that using AVi and having to use a VLC media player does kinda suck. But why use that on a mac when I can use my phone and download it very quickly with ease.

 

[Agie]

I love your guys opinions on video formats. @Panzer Platform and @Dashmellow I have sold tons of H.265 video codec dash cameras. All the cameras we sell when downloading with smartphone app they download into MP4 format. Also AVI will work in windows media player. I do not use windows computers at all because i despise them. But that is who I am.

We have also sold GNET and IROAD dash cameras that use a JDR file format where you need to use a desktop computer or your smartphone to get an MP4 file.

The fact that anyone would give your video evidence on an SD card blindly to the police or RCMP, or any law enforcement is opposite of what I tell any customer. You are responsible for your own camera footage.

You are basically bring up the USB - C and lightning cable arguement that went on for years. Now Apple folded to a USB-C on their phones.

Also to correct people there are many dash cameras that spit out H.265 in MP4 format so to say that H.265 is bad is also wrong information.

Last point on the subject. Every dash camera that has a smartphone app uses proprietary software to view it via the smartphone app. Without their app you can not pair, view, change settings, and download.

I would say a very big chunk of customers do not even own Desktop computers anymore. I know that because we talk to our customers. Even people cruise Google with Tablets and Mobile phones more than a desktop computer. its in the 70% range of people using mobile.

I will agree that using AVi and having to use a VLC media player does kinda suck. But why use that on a mac when I can use my phone and download it very quickly with ease.

Haha only reason Apple folded to USB-C was because of the EU not any other factor

I have to agree with the other points you make though. We are a LONG way from the old days of the wild west with video codecs and video containers, where one had to download codec packs just to play RealPlayer videos, AKI, DIvx, MKV the whole lot. Everything is standardized between a few formats now and should something be in a different format, then well Microsoft or other big companies (usually) bake in support, so you don't have to go chasing down those codec packs yourself manually.

Like you say, it's so much easier to do on mobile now with the advent of decent apps. Sure it's not going to fit every use case scenario or every demographic, but it's a hell of a lot better than what it used to be.

 

[Panzer Platform]

when downloading with smartphone app

Smartphone APPs are inconsequential.
If your SD Card is subpoenaed by a court of law you will have to fork over the original SD Card to the court, (not a digital copy, not a copy on another SD Card, not a copy on a smartphone) but the actual physical SD Card that was in the camera at the time of the incident.
The courts / opposing lawyers will not bother with cellphones, or cellphone APPs.
They want the original SD Card, and nothing else.
Death to H.265
Long live H.264 until 2034
Come at me Bro. lol

 

[safedrivesolutions]

Smartphone APPs are inconsequential.
If your SD Card is subpoenaed by a court of law you will have to fork over the original SD Card to the court, (not a digital copy, not a copy on another SD Card, not a copy on a smartphone) but the actual physical SD Card that was in the camera at the time of the incident.
The courts / opposing lawyers will not bother with cellphones, or cellphone APPs.
They want the original SD Card, and nothing else.
Death to H.265
Long live H.264 until 2034
Come at me Bro. lol

Pop Quiz hotshot your in a car accident and you have a dash camera and you dont knopw if its in H.265 or H.264? What do you do ?

 

[Panzer Platform]

Pop Quiz hotshot your in a car accident and you have a dash camera and you dont knopw if its in H.265 or H.264? What do you do ?

You inform the police, or investigating officers @Nigel from DashCamTalk is your legally appointed representative.
You inform them you’re willing to corporate with their investigation, but you refuse to answer any questions until you have legal representation present.

 

[DT MI]

Pop Quiz hotshot your in a car accident and you have a dash camera and you dont knopw if its in H.265 or H.264? What do you do ?

If you're in and accident and you don't know if your camera is recording in H.265 or H.264 what you do is hope like h*ll that it's H.264 so the largest audience possible can view the files and you don't get hung out to dry because they can't..

 

[safedrivesolutions]

If you're in and accident and you don't know if your camera is recording in H.265 or H.264 what you do is hope like h*ll that it's H.264 so the largest audience possible can view the files and you don't get hung out to dry because they can't..

you download the video to your smartphone because it does not matter in my opinion.

 

[Nigel]

They want the original SD Card, and nothing else.

You think they have an SD Card reader?
That isn't blocked due to risk from viruses?

More likely they will want it on CD!

Here in the UK, the police have a cloud server that you can upload the files to straight from your phone, removes all these issues.

 

[safedrivesolutions]

You think they have an SD Card reader?
That isn't blocked due to risk from viruses?

More likely they will want it on CD!

Here in the UK, the police have a cloud server that you can upload the files to straight from your phone, removes all these issues.

In Canada you have to take the video and upload it directly to your insurance company. Great point @Nigel

 

[DT MI]

you download the video to your smartphone because it does not matter in my opinion.

It matters to the legal community, and possibly insurance as well.

IMO if you're recommending H.265 only cameras to your customers who are using them to record videos for evidentiary purposes you're doing them a serious disservice.

 

[safedrivesolutions]

It matters to the legal community, and possibly insurance as well.

IMO if you're recommending H.265 only cameras to your customers who are using them to record videos for evidentiary purposes you're doing them a serious disservice.

I never said that I only recommend H.265. We sell lots of Viofo which is H.264. I just think people should not be closed off to assuming that customers can not use technology like H.265.
Blackvue DR970X uses H.265 and still downloads as mp4 through app and desktop computer.
Thinkware U3000 uses H.265 and still downloads as MP4 through app and desktop computer.
Viofo A139 pro can be switched between H.264 and H.265. Lots of people buy the A139 pro for being able to switch to H.265.

At the end of the day if you find out people are not smartphone friendly you sell them a unit with MP4 that they can easily use on their old school windows PC.

 

[DT MI]

You think they have an SD Card reader?
That isn't blocked due to risk from viruses?

More likely they will want it on CD!

Here in the UK, the police have a cloud server that you can upload the files to straight from your phone, removes all these issues.

A virus (or any other malware for that matter) can be just as easily introduced from a CD as from an SD card, floppy disk or any other external medium.

 

[DT MI]

I never said that I only recommend H.265. We sell lots of Viofo which is H.264. I just think people should not be closed off to assuming that customers can not use technology like H.265.
Blackvue DR970X uses H.265 and still downloads as mp4 through app and desktop computer.
Thinkware U3000 uses H.265 and still downloads as MP4 through app and desktop computer.

That still doesn't address the issue of the legal system requiring the original media as evidence.

This is a perfect instance where the lowest common denominator is the best solution. Those customers who want a specific camera because of H.265 should at least be advised of the potential downside of using it.

 

[Dashmellow]

I love your guys opinions on video formats. @Panzer Platform and @Dashmellow I have sold tons of H.265 video codec dash cameras. All the cameras we sell when downloading with smartphone app they download into MP4 format. Also AVI will work in windows media player.

Unlike many, if not most people here on DCT I have had extensive experience submitting dash cam videos to law enforcement due to an ongoing harassment matter that was my initial reason for getting into dash cams in the first place. I also had to submit various CCTV videos, photographs and other media. I learned first hand about the pitfalls of submitting files that can be problematic to open and that you never know who's desk your evidence video is going to land on within the chain of custody. Some people are very knowledgeable and skilled in working with video files and some within the same organizations are totally clueless.

This is why I feel so strongly that it is imperative to submit video files that are as easy and idiot-proof as possible for literally anyone to open and view. H.265 is very slowly becoming the compression standard but we are still a long way from that happening. The benefits of using H.265 are really rather minimal all in all.

I've noticed over the years here that many members want the newest, latest technology because they think it is somehow cool and somehow "better" but since we as dash cam users are after actionable video evidence, use H.265 at your own peril! Most members here on DCT have never been in a position to submit files to law enforcement, prosecutors, courts, investigators or insurance companies.

And yes, the state police in my area will only accept files on DVD or CD digital media that they can scan for malware before viewing. They flatly refuse to click on links in emails to files stored on servers since the link may not in fact be a dash cam file stored on a server, it may be malware that some degenerate clown who has had previous unwanted contact with the state police is trying to get them to click on.

I dunno' I personally would never use an AVI camera at this point for some of the same reasons as I talk about above. Best avoided in favor of MP4 which virtually anyone can open and view easily.

 

[Nigel]

A virus (or any other malware for that matter) can be just as easily introduced from a CD as from an SD card, floppy disk or any other external medium.

Not on my computers, I haven't had a floppy disk reader for years, or a CD reader.

I think it is not unusual for mass storage devices like card readers to be disabled on professional computers, which only leaves the option of uploading to a server which is going to do malware protection and video format conversion as necessary.

That still doesn't address the issue of the legal system requiring the original media as evidence.

What they need is the original video, not the original media.

If I record something on the 70mai Omni, it has no SD card. To submit the original media I would have to submit the dashcam, and how would they play that? (It doesn't do card reader mode.)